‘Pluribus’ Star Karolina Wydra on the Vince Gilligan Note That ‘Terrified’ Her and How Rhea Seehorn Saved Her

Welcome to My Favorite Scene! In this series, IndieWire speaks to actors behind a few of our favorite television performances about their personal-best onscreen moment and how it came together. 

In 2019, Karolina Wydra decided to start a family. That decision resulted in her manager and agent dropping her.

When “Pluribus” and Vince Gilligan came calling at the end of 2025, Wydra was on vacation in Mexico with her good friend Caitríona Balfe (“Outlander,” “Sense and Sensibility”). With no agent or manager, the good news panicked Wydra, but thankfully Balfe contacted her team to help her friend. The rest is “Pluribus” history.

From Mexico to the role of Zosia, Wydra plays the character with what can only be described as one of the year’s breakout performances. The newly-minted Emmy nominee sat down with IndieWire to discuss her favorite scene, her relationship with co-star Rhea Seehorn, and what it was like walking on to the “Pluribus” set for the first time, after her long acting break.

Wydra also opens up about the note that Gilligan gave her that terrified her, how Seehorn saved her with a cockpit TedTalk, and why she believes her character is not actually the villain. She also reveals how many times she and Seehorn rehearsed the show-changing kiss. She confesses who in the cast she thinks really deserved an Emmy nomination but was unjustly snubbed.

And she breaks down her favorite scene, in which Zosia and Seehorn’s Carol have a post-coital, pancake-making chat with a side of mango ice cream. It reveals who her character really is and also marks a turning point for Carol and Zosia’s relationship.

In the season one finale of “Pluribus” — consider this your spoiler alert — Zosia and Carol’s relationship hits its peak and then comes to an abrupt halt, when after spending a romantic weekend together, Zosia tells Carol “they” are close to finding a “cure” to make Carol like them, because they took Carol’s frozen eggs. Nothing ruins a relationship faster than finding out your girlfriend, who’s actually the entire world, stole your frozen eggs.

The following interview has been edited and condensed for clarity and length.

IndieWire: You play Zosia, the pirate lady. You took a character that could be very easy to hate and you made us fall in love with her in one episode. That’s what the “Pirate Lady” episode was for me. It went from, “Oh she’s evil, she’s not good.” But then Carol did things to make you go away, and I was mad at Carol. Team Zosia.

Karolina Wydra: Thank you for saying that! You know what was great about not reading all the scripts all at once? I was able to go on a journey and discover her with each episode. I didn’t know what was going to happen in Episode 9. I don’t judge my characters. I have to stand behind everything that my character does and fall in love with my character, otherwise you can’t play them, because then you’re going to be fighting internally what you’re playing. I understand why she does what she does with the eggs. But it’s a tactic that’s pretty manipulative and dangerous. When anybody thinks they know what’s best for you, it’s the scariest thing.

In Episode 4, when we talk about conversion therapy. First of all, the fact that still exists makes me sick to my stomach. It’s a perfect example of religious people saying, “We know what’s best for you. You are a sinner.” In that way, Zosia can be looked as villainous, but I don’t think she is. They think or rather they know that once Carol experiences this, she will be appreciative and grateful for this virus.

I love the comparison to a religious cult, because that’s what it’s like.

Yes, these people see things in a very particular way, they see it one way. This is the only way. But there’s an argument for that too. They know what it’s like to be Carol, but Carol doesn’t know what it’s like to be them. So, maybe it is better?

You see Carol go through that thought process, especially as she falls in love with Zosia or rather the entire world—

We talk about how wild it is that she’s not just in love with one person. That’s why she asked for Zosia to say “I,” to individualize her, not to make her part of the collective, because Zosia, you see it in Episode 8 how hard it is for her to say “I,” to disassociate herself from the collective and be an individual.

That’s a great segue to your favorite scene.

It’s the mango scene. I love it for many reasons. Zosia does this dance with Carol the whole season, which is, “I only move forward, if I’m allowed to move forward.” I’m constantly studying her, seeing how close I can get to her, how Carol is responding to me. When Episode 7 happens, she calls me, I come back. I know the gates are open now. We have her wanting us.

You see a transition from how we’ve seen Zosia behave. Her language changes, we get more relaxed, we use more of a slang language. Before it was very proper, very analyzed. Everything they do is very analyzed, very lawyerly, because they have the greatest lawyers in there.

But there’s a switch how Zosia starts to behave towards Carol. Is she becoming individual within the hive mind or is she performing because she has all the memories of [her wife] Helen in her? She knows exactly what Carol likes, what Carol enjoys, the kind of banter Carol loves. Is it performative or is it real? It was fun going on that ride in Episode 8. We become close, we share a kiss, we’re post-coital, we get even closer, I read her book, we’re more domestic, time has passed with us together…

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Let’s talk about the lead up to the mango scene, where you start this relationship. You two have really wonderful chemistry. When the kiss happened, I was surprised for half a second!

Were you?! Oh, that’s cool. It was hard for me to be surprised!

Yes! But then I thought, “Oh, of course, they get together!” So, the mango scene is where you see Carol really looking at Zosia as an individual. What was it like working with Rhea on all of this?

From the minute I met Rhea when I tested for the show, she was so welcoming. She makes you feel very safe and seen. There’s nothing better than another female doing that for you, who’s rooting for you and wants the best for you. When I tested, she was so generous with everything for me to get this job. When you start a relationship like that, you realize, “Oh God, this is so special.” We spend a lot of time together — we would meet every single weekend and break down scenes.

We have similar work ethics where we work our asses off. There’s constant discovery and play. When you have someone that is as dedicated as you are it just makes you even go further and harder.

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We talked about that kiss scene for quite a while. Is this kiss earned? How can we get to the place where the kiss has the impact that it does? What kind of a kiss is it? How hungry is she? We talked about how far to take it, even when I kiss her. Why am I doing that? What is happening to Zosia and the collective at that moment?

All of us, the writer, Johnny Gomez; the director Melissa Bernstein; and Vince, we all had different ideas of that kiss and what it meant. That kiss was very important. The one place we talked about, you don’t see it, but we shot it, I go into her writing room. That’s where she writes “Wycaro,” and you realize, I’m a fan girl. I’m a fan walking into that room, like, “Oh my God, I’m in the sanctuary of ‘Wycaro.’”

It’s easy to forget that Zosia is everyone, she’s Carol’s fans, her late wife, every single person. Carol is sleeping with the entire world.

Yes! Zosia’s a super fan girl. But then, Carol starts to relax. Maybe she’s in denial that this person is a real person. Zosia is a fully-fledged human being, but is this person an individual now? With the mango scene, you see Zosia, you get a glimpse of how she grew up. She pauses when Carol asks her that question, they’re making pancakes… I don’t answer right away. Because I travel into the collective to retrieve the memory, I have to travel into the memory of Zosia and go, “Oh, mango ice cream!”

It makes her human. It makes her the individual that Carol’s been searching for. That was the first time I got a glimpse into her past, of the poverty she grew up in. She didn’t have two pennies to rub together. Carol saw that tenderness and vulnerability.

Are you and Rhea fans of this relationship?

Oh, for sure! We love working together. We call each other sisters, truly. Magically, we get along so well. We laugh and joke all the time, but we take this so seriously and help each other out. It’s what I love about our show, it’s human love, human grief, human loss, and these people coming together. You see how alone Carol is and how she’s struggling so much. But they have this beautiful level of understanding each other, of connecting where the world doesn’t feel lonely, and we need that.

It’s that companionship and tenderness, when somebody touches you, you feel alive. I came to New York yesterday, I called my husband [in LA] this morning, “How did you sleep, babe?” He’s like, “Terrible, just terrible.” And whenever we’re not together, we sleep so bad. As much as people say, “Oh God, I need a break from you.” We can’t sleep. Just tells you our bodies need that.

‘Pluribus’Anna Kooris

These two characters really fill a space for each other. That’s what’s so telling about this scene, besides it making us want mango ice cream, you realize Zosia used to be a person. Could Carol save her?

That was what it was like for me too. I would love to more know more about Zosia, who this person was prior to this. I would want to save her from this thing that she’s a part of.  That’s what I love about Vince’s writing, what he’s created is there’s always an argument for both.

Yet there’s this undertone of darkness that that that permeates the whole show.

There is, and you question it. I remember when I read Episode 9 in the scene with the goat. By the way, that goat needs an Emmy. Let’s be real. That goat was the goat.

The amount of things you had to act with on this show, from helicopters to goats.

Sadly, I didn’t get to act with the goats! But what was amazing about that scene, you see these people performing. They’re all so happy and joyous. Then when Kusimayu gets the virus, you see them turning. I remember watching that duality. “Woo! Well, that’s creepy!” When I read it, I didn’t feel that as much, but when I saw it, I thought, “Wow, this is so unsettling.”

What was it like working with Vince? You had taken a significantly long break from acting, this was your first role since 2019?

Oh yeah! I was [sings] terr-i-fied. I was really scared. It was dream of mine to work with him. Then you get to work with someone that you admire so much. You read the scripts and think, “This is incredible! How am I going to tackle this?” So overwhelmed, but excited. The first few days on set, I was so scared, we laugh about it now, but Vince loves to take a lot of takes. I didn’t know that at first.

Did you think you were messing up each time he asked you to do another take?

Oh yes! Rhea saw the fear in my eyes, and she went, “Oh, let me talk to her.” We were doing the airplane scene, she took me to the cockpit and said, “Listen, he only does this because he wants to try things, and he wants to find different levels to the scene. He knows you can do it.” He pushes and pushes. Vince has a saying, “Let’s take it till it breaks!” If you’re not aware of it you think, “Oh no, I’m really shit right now, is this it!” Thank God that she took me aside.

On some days, I’m feeling nervous. But that’s not who Zosia is. So, you need to suppress that. She needs to be very unflappable and serene, very peaceful from the head till the feet. Vince would say to me, “Hey, these people don’t have nerves.”

And you were like, “I’m the opposite.”

Yes! It was very challenging for me, but it was the most one of the best experiences of my life. You’re working with people that are so supportive, Vince and Rhea and the whole crew. They truly want you to do your best. They will never make you look bad. They’ll push you, but they will never make you look bad.

“Pluribus” Season 1 is now streaming on Apple TV.