How John Carney Builds a Musical: Paul Rudd’s Song Picks, Nick Jonas’ Casting Ideas, and Not Selling Out

It’s tough to name another contemporary filmmaker who has utilized the language of the movie musical for such a wide range of charming features — a busker-centric love story, a teens-build-a-band coming-of-ager, a dramedy that hinges on Mark Ruffalo being a bit of a loser, and more — quite like John Carney. From “Once” and “Sing Street” to “Begin Again” and “Flora and Son,” Carney’s films rely on the power of music as much as any traditional musical, conveying emotion and character and story in every scene.

That holds true with his latest film, “Power Ballad,” which stars Paul Rudd and Nick Jonas as a pair of talented musicians at very different points in their careers.

Rudd is Rick Power (get it?), a one-time would-be rock star who has since moved on from his dreams of being a professional rock n’ roller, instead dedicating himself to his family (including his Irish wife and daughter) and the wedding band (The Bride and Groove) that pays his bills. It’s during one of those gigs that he meets Danny Wilson (Jonas), a former boy-bander trying to prove he’s got the juice to be a solo star.

When Danny hops up on stage to jam out with the band during a memorable rendition of “I Wish,” no one is more shocked than Rick that the youngster is not only talented but genuinely fun to sing with. Soon enough, the pair are jamming out all night, trading songs and stories in equal measure. But, months later, when Rick hears a familiar tune on the radio, he has to face (ahem) the music: Did Danny steal one of his songs? And has it turned into the kind of massive smash hit that Rick never enjoyed during his heyday? And what the hell is he gonna do about it now?

Ahead, Carney tells IndieWire about collaborating (making beautiful music together?) with both Rudd and Jonas on a number of the film‘s key elements, not ever “making a deal with the devil,” worries about being the last generation to truly know the theatrical experience, and the one actor he’d love to cast in anything.

The following interview has been edited and condensed for clarity and length.

IndieWire: I’m not sure if this will surprise you, but I often ask actors what sort of film they’ve always wanted to star in, and most of them say “a musical!” What is it about the musical, or a film like the films that you make, which are musical in nature, that continues to endure, even when Hollywood isn’t necessarily making them?

John Carney: Jesus, I don’t know. I have no idea. [Laughs] Yeah, it’s a weird one. I do think it’s true that I’ve met a lot of actors who would love to scratch that itch that they have about singing. And I don’t understand why you would want to do it, because it’s terrifying. Singing publicly is terrifying. But maybe that’s it. Maybe it’s to try the thing that scares them the most or something like that. You’re very, very exposed when you sing.

‘Power Ballad‘©Lions Gate/Courtesy Everett Collection

In this one, you not only have people who are scratching that itch, but are just solid casting picks. Paul and Nick are both excellent choices, not only as performers, but also because of their real-world personas. Were you imagining them when you and [co-writer] Peter McDonald were writing this?

Casting is that weird thing where there’s 50 guys who could do it, up until the first clapper board, and then you make a movie, and everybody’s like, “He’s the only guy that could have done it.” It’s very easy to say that in hindsight, but I think a good actor like Paul or Nick make the movie their own, that’s the difference. They make it so nobody else could have done it.

Once they got their teeth into it, they’re like, “I’m not going to let anybody else near this movie. I’m going to make it my own film.” I think the great actors, from Humphrey Bogart or Sterling Hayden or any of those guys, they were like, “There’s nobody else on Earth that’s going to read this line this way.”

On the surface, the character of Danny has a lot in common with Nick and his own career. Did Danny change once you cast Nick in the role?

It deepened, it didn’t change. Nothing changed in terms of the circumstances. It deepened, and it became more sort of mercurial and mysterious as to why he would maybe take something that he knew didn’t fully belong to him. He made it more sympathetic, more involved, and more complex. And he made it like he didn’t need anybody else around him. You could imagine having tons of fans or a mother or a father, the manager could have had a bigger role, but Nick could handle the movie and represent that side of the coin of this movie pretty well on his own.

When you met with Nick for this role, did he have any fears about, “Oh, people are going to think I’m just playing myself”?

Not a bit. There’s certain people that just know how industries work. It’s kind of weird actually, because I would’ve thought exactly what you just said. It never dawned on him. And he was right. Also, it means he knows how big a star he is, that people know enough about him to be able to distinguish between Nick Jonas and this character he’s playing in this movie.

Just to take an example, Frank Sinatra always wanted to be an actor in the ’40s and ’50s. He was a very good actor, but he wanted meaty, deep parts, and a lot of producers felt like he couldn’t do it, but he knew he could do it. And as it turns out, he could do full roles in movies without any singing in which he was quite plausible and believable and tough and interesting, and only he knew what he could bring and how big his star was. And nobody’s going to confuse or wonder when Frank Sinatra’s going to start singing because they know who Frank Sinatra is.

‘Power Ballad’©Lions Gate/Courtesy Everett Collection

Paul also brings his own public persona to the role of Rick. When you see Paul Rudd, you’re sort of naturally rooting for him.

Once Paul committed to doing it and came on board, it was like, “And now I see the movie.” Now I get who this guy is. I started to look at Paul almost like, can you imagine if it was Paul Rudd and he wasn’t a famous actor, but he looked this well, and he was this nice, and how frustrating it would be for him, like “What went wrong that you haven’t made it?” That was very useful in terms of understanding that my character, who does have talent and looks and songs and all of that, “Why didn’t he make it? What weird other thing do you need?”

That helped us. It seems like, if you look at Paul’s career, he never made a deal with the devil. He never did that shitty movie. Even when he did a big commercial movie like “Ant-Man” or something like that, which could have seemed like a sellout or whatever, he made it his own, and he made it funny, and he made it different. You’d look at Paul, and you go, “Maybe that’s his problem, the Rick character, maybe he never did make a deal with the devil.”

Right. He never changed himself.

He put his family first, and that was important to him. I have seen a lot of musicians, and I have seen the point at which they went, “I’m going to do this deal even though I know it’s a compromise or it’s wrong because it gets me here on the board.” I find it depressing that that happens.

I’m glad I haven’t had to make that movie, and I’m not saying that I didn’t do it out of heroic artistic integrity or something like that. I didn’t get the movies, thank God! Or the ads. I definitely put myself forward for commercials, and I didn’t get them, and I’m so glad I didn’t, because I hate commercials. I don’t trust directors who make ads for other people. But I probably would’ve done it, but now I get to say how cool I am because I didn’t do it. [Laughs]

‘Power Ballad’©Lions Gate/Courtesy Everett Collection

Rick didn’t have to make that choice because no one really asked him to.

I don’t think anybody asked him.

How did you pick the songs that make up the Bride and Groove’s set list? There are classic wedding songs, but also picks that help drive the story.

I’m not sure I did pick any of the songs of the wedding band, ironically. I don’t think I ever wrote any of the song titles, because I felt that if I write that down now, it’s stuck on that. The whole beauty of him being in a wedding band is that we can pick from 500 songs whatever we want, so I would leave them open.

Sometimes it was Paul and sometimes it was Peter who would suggest certain songs. And it didn’t matter! There’s probably about 100 songs from that era of ’80s rock or late ’70s that are so good. We had ELO, and we had Huey Lewis and the News, and we had tons of songs that you don’t see in the movie that we shot that we did, and they’re all so good. I’m certain that Paul picked “Celebration” by Kool and the Gang.

It’s a classic wedding song. It just makes you happy.

There’s certain points at which I love other people to tell me what music to go in, because I don’t want to legislate for it yet. I certainly know that Peter suggested “I Wish,” and that was perfect. It’s got that funky baseline, and it takes a bit of courage as a wedding band to play that song, because you could play it really badly. And it’s established that if they could play that well, you know what I mean?

They’re good!

They’re a really good wedding band, and they are serious. And for Nick to get up and sing that song? Nick takes the vocals onto a whole other level when he sings.

‘Power Ballad’©Lions Gate/Courtesy Everett Collection

You also cast another one of my favorites, who you first introduced me to in “Sing Street,” the great Jack Reynor. He’s playing Danny’s manager, this sort of American jackass, which is so not what we normally associate with him. How easy was it to get Jack to come in and do that for you?

Jack was the perfect choice for it. He’s young, and Jack felt to me like somebody in “Entourage” or somebody like that. Jack has a lot of that kind of swagger and confidence. I think Nick also was like, “I love that character, Brendan in ‘Sing Street.’ Is he around?” And I was like, “Maybe he is.” It was Nick actually that persuaded me to hire Jack for that role. I don’t think I thought of Jack for it, because I thought, I’ll get some American hotshot.

I actually had thought of Joseph Gordon-Levitt, but the role wasn’t big enough. And then I thought Joseph would’ve done it in a more button-down, in-control sort of way, and he would’ve been a bit more old-school. Jack is good because these young kids rule that industry now. It’s not guys in suits. It’s these young, brash kids who look like they’re artists running this industry.

I’m happy that you mentioned Joe, because I saw “Flora and Son” at its Sundance premiere, and it was such a beautiful experience. Everyone was clapping and singing, and it was so emotional.

It really was, wasn’t it?

Apple bought the film, and obviously, it’s great to be bought, but then you don’t get that theatrical experience, which is something I so deeply associate with your films.

Well, I think Francois Truffaut said something like, “Each film in a director’s life is about the film they just made beforehand.” It’s not entirely true, but where it is true is that you put a film out and you see it, and then you react for what your next movie is going to be. Not necessarily to the subject matter, but just to the way the movie is received and where it lives.

Apple worked hard on that movie, but yeah, you don’t know how many people watched it, you don’t get a sense of it. When I came back from that Sundance, I rang my agent very quickly, and I said, “You know ‘Power Ballad’? The thing which we have on boil? That’s our next film. Let’s put everything in on that because it’s visual, it’s cinematic.” “Flora and Son” was a laptop with two apartments; it was very low-key in that sense. This is a bigger thing. It’s got more scope and travel. Let’s make this as a cinema movie.

I don’t know, I don’t want to say this, but am I the last generation? Am I among the last generation of people who get to say, like I was talking to my son the other day, he was like, “What’s the big deal about a premiere?” And I’m like, “Well, they’re going to open it in cinemas.” And he was like, “Where else would they open it?” And I’m like, “You’ll see.”

On the set of ‘Power Ballad’©Lions Gate/Courtesy Everett Collection

You’ll see! It’ll be on your phone before you know it.

Yeah, on your thumb.

That’s the next one.

And your glasses, on the inside. You’re watching it, and Mark Zuckerberg is in the corner going, “Hello.”

Yeah, “What do you think?” Oh, God.

[Laughs]

With that in mind, how might “Power Ballad” inform your next film?

It’s already affecting my next film. I have a couple of things, but I don’t know, I kind of want to wait to see this film get out into the world and see what people think and how it does. But I have two or three things that have some musical characters in them. They’re slightly less music-y, one set in Dublin, one set in LA and Paris. I don’t know. It depends.

Let’s reverse my first question: if you could cast anyone in one of your films, who would it be?

I’d love to do something with Ben Stiller. He’s really interested in music, and he’s in that zone of comedy, where it’s just evolved into this lovely place where he is funny, but it’s funny, sad. It’s not trying to be funny for the sake of being funny. It’s funny because he just is a funny guy, and there’s a certain gallows humor and a certain dark irony that I love in him. I feel it when I see his movies. Years ago, we talked about maybe doing something, so… But he’d be amazing, just because he’s a legend.

He’s also a filmmaker.

Yeah, he has a filmmaker sensibility. Actually, Paul has a filmmaker sensibility. Not sensibility, but he knows so well what a director is looking for that he’s almost sympathizing with you when you can’t get it.

Whereas other actors would be like, “I want to go to the trailer. Did you get what you need?,” he’d be like, “I know you didn’t get what you want.” And you’d be like, “I totally didn’t,” and he’d be like, “Well, let’s do it again.” But, to me, any actor really should be looking behind the camera and going, “I want to know how that works.”

Lionsgate will release “Power Ballad” in limited theaters on Friday, May 29 and in wide release on Friday, June 5.